By John D. Sutter, CNN
Obvious statement: Lots of middle schoolers have been outside.
But I'm going to go out on a limb and say that almost none of them look up at the trees, see the Fibonacci Sequence in the branches, and use that insight to develop new and more-efficient methods of arranging solar panels.
Stuff like that only happens to Aidan Dwyer.
This 13-year-old from Long Island, New York, was a presenter at the recent PopTech conference, where he spoke with CNN. He says his method for arranging solar panels - based on the mathematics of tree branches - is 20 to 50% more efficient than traditional solar arrays, especially in low-light conditions, such as cloudy days in the winter or in places where there are lots of trees and tall buildings.
"My design is like a tree," he said, "but instead of having leaves it has solar panels at the ends (of the branches)."
Dwyer created a prototype of this tree-like solar panel array for a science fair with the help of his granddad. He ordered the solar panels online and the pair built the rest of it together. For his efforts, he won the Young Naturalist award this year from the American Museum of Natural History in New York. (You can see a photo of the solar-panel prototype on that museum's website).
This idea for this energy-saving project hit Dwyer when he was going for a walk in the woods near his home in New York:
One day I was just walking through the woods - well, on a winter hiking trip - and I noticed that the tree branches collect sunlight by going up into the air. And I thought: 'Maybe if we put solar panels on the ends of the branches it would collect a lot of sunlight.'
He also made another mind-boggling observation: That tree branches spiral up the trunk based on a mathematic concept called the Fibonacci Sequence. I had to look that equation up before my interview with Dwyer, but I didn't really need to. He can explain it off the top of his head:
The Fibonacci Sequence was made by a medieval mathematician, Fibonacci, and he played with a math puzzle to figure out how fast rabbits could reproduce over time. How it's done is you start with 0 and 1, and then you add the two numbers in the series together to get the next number in the sequence. So it's like 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, and so on.
He added:
The fraction for an oak tree is 2:5, which means five branches spiral around the trunk two times to reach the same starting point. So, if you start out at 75 degrees, and you get five branches to go around the trunk twice, then you'll be back at 75 degrees.
Right-o, kid.
Dwyer said he's been contacted by professors and other middle schools who want to work with him on this project, but not all scientists are impressed with his work. Some science bloggers have tried to debunk some of Dwyer's concept, saying, among other things:
Aidan did not actually discover a more efficient way to convert solar energy into power as he claimed and these numerous publications reported. In fact, Aidan’s essay, while extremely well written, contains methodological flaws and incorrect conclusions.
That blog post, on a site called The Optimiskeptic, questions whether Dwyer used the right measurements to make his conclusions:
I’m not entirely sure why Aidan thought that he could measure power intake by measuring voltage on his solar cells. I’m not entirely sure why the different arrangements yielded different voltage totals ... I do know that solar cells are designed to convert energy from photons into potential energy in the form of electrons: 'charging the battery.' Levels of voltage have nothing to do with how charged that battery is, however, and at no time during his experiment was Aidan actually measuring how much power was being converted by each of the solar cell arrangements.
Dwyer, for his part, says the bloggers are missing the point:
Some of the commenters were encouraging me and some were giving me ideas to expand my research. But some, I felt like they didn't understand my project. Their points weren't really related to my project. I was trying to see if the tree design could collect more sunlight - not more open current voltage. But I also measured open-current voltage and it collected 20% more (than flat-panel solar arrays).
Furthermore, he said, his panels collected 50% more light in low-light conditions than flat-panel arrangements, like those found on top of homes.
So there. Of course, science is a conversation. Debate is a good thing. Who knows whether Dwyer's tree-based solar panels really will change the world - but how cool is it that a 13-year-old has come up with an idea that even has the potential to bump the clean-tech industry a bit into the future?
Dwyer is among the people most shocked by all the attention his project has gotten. He's not sure what to make of it all - or how to handle conversations with adults for that matter:
At PopTech I feel a little lonely because I'm the youngest one there - like, by a big range. It's pretty lonely being the youngest one ... I don't know how to start a conversation with an adult yet - so I just have to wait for them to ask me questions, and all that. They just come up to me and go 'You're that kid!' And then they ask me about my project and they ask me about how I found that idea and then the conversation forms.
One thing I found particularly impressive about Dwyer is that he come across as smart, composed - and normal. The phrase "child genius" brings to mind the social-awkwardness of the kids in "The Royal Tenenbaums" or overly-adult-seemingness of that child actor in "The Sixth Sense." Dwyer doesn't emit those qualities. He seems like pretty much any other middle schooler you might meet - until you ask him about Fibonacci.
"I'm starting to get into photography. I do a sailing program in the summer. I play golf - and I, like, hang out with my friends," he said.
Those friends, by the way, don't quite get all this solar-panel business.
"They're really impressed - but they don't really understand it," he said, cracking a nervous smile. "I don't really talk to them about it."
He saves those conversations for reporters - and for his conference lectures, of course.
Click the video below to watch Dwyer's presentation at the PopTech conference last month. And let us know what you think in the comments.
Each week, CNN's "The Next List" profiles innovators, visionaries and agents of change. They’re not household names just yet, but they’re movers and shakers in their own worlds. We’re introducing them to you because these individuals are steadily mapping the course to the future with their new ideas.
WHO: Host Dr. Sanjay Gupta
WHEN: Sundays at 2 p.m. ET
WHERE: Only on CNN
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Yup, you naysyaers were sure right all along. The Wright Brothers will never fly, and computers will never catch on. Dare to dream, our 13-yr old innovator. One day, all your dreams will come true. And, they once thought there could not be pentagonal crystals, either. Lo and behold, the dude is a Nobel Prize winner!
the best thing for the environment is to let actual trees grow, then cut them down, and use the wood for houses, boxes, skis, teeth, etc. Then replant more trees in their place. Each tree absorbs tons of greenhouse gases and carbon. Just don't burn it.
How come it's taking hours for comments to be moderated? How come 90% of mine are in moderator limbo?
I hope this kid becomes successful. We need fresh ideas to kick start this economy. We need more people like him instead of people who are stuck with the same old problems by trying to copy someone else's and trying to improve on them.
He tried. He learned. If he keeps this up, we may have to call him Dr. one day. It does not mater if it works or not. Like all experiments, it has to be tried. That is the inventive spirit we need more of.
Not being allowed to reply or comment relating to a much more serious error that was made several years ago (moderators won't let me).
It is not advisable to credit young people with major technological advances because it rarely proves true. It is fine to have science contests for young people as long as the aims and expectations are made clear to both the participants and the public. Then expectations and claims should also be keep very modest (unless thoroughly vetted). Maybe only once in a decade do young people come along who legitimately can make bold claims of scientific breakthroughs (that is why Nobel Prizes have yet to be awarded to anyone under the age of 25).
You are such a buzz kill. You probably have a doctorate and have never done anything out of academia. You wish you could think up something that actually applies to real life.
You are close! I am not in academia but I have worked in several scientific fields and have several patents and some successful inventions but have never been written up, or placed on a pedestal by the media (from which it is all too easy to fall down). Usually, it's what you do after the age of 20 that really counts.
Have you ever thought that it's kids like this who are the one who are the most inventive? They see and think of things that we don't. Their minds are not cluttered with mathimatical formulas. The first time people like Edison invented something, it didn't work so they kept at it until it did. Give him a break. His idea may work just fine. The sun doesn't stay still so why should the solar panels all be facing the same direction? Put down your books and learn something new!
Then often they just go to work for Wall Street or go into medicine (as doctors – not researchers). Ideas are easy to come by but R&D is HARD (real hard) and can take decades. It will remain to be seen how many young people will want to make the sacrifices needed to become top-notch scientists and inventors (I have been at it for over 30). Coming up with ideas is the fun part!
Check this out, I just happened to read about this today. http://news.discovery.com/tech/artificial-trees-111119.html
I support a kid's curiosity, but agree that this isn't novel or successful. The idea of solar panels as leaves is so old as to be forgetable - in fact, it's already been productized: http://inhabitat.com/vivien-muller-photosyntheses-solar-charging-tree/ (not sure if this is for sale yet, but it's a cool concept... regardless, would you pause on that webpage and think the designer had solved the world's energy problems?)
Can't reply or comment relating to a much more serious error that was made several years ago (moderators won't let me).
Not allowed to reply or comment relating to a much more serious error that was made several years ago (moderators won't let me).
The real story here is about how a group of people who show know better got so excited about a talented 13 year old kid that they forgot to properly check the results of the experiment. If you check here: http://www.amnh.org/news/2011/08/valuable-lesson-about-variables/ you'll see the museum has admitted that the experiment was not a success.
Of course the media loves a story likes this, and in the 24/7 news cycle fact checking just slows things down.
Show know better -> Should know better
People named Eric are often the first to discount any advancements made by other people and often guilty of trying to look like they are the smartest guy in the room.
It's not difficult to look like the smartest person when you are.
Well, Eric, that is an interesting article. But essentially incorrect.
You see, he wasn't asking whether solar panels can produce more power when arranged in his Fibonacci pattern. He was asking why trees have that pattern, and specifically whether it gives leaves a larger amount of sunlight. His measuring of voltage, not power, was precisely right to measure the amount of sunlight the panels received. Voltage gave him just what he needed, a signal proportional to the area of the panel hit by sunlight.
Which was the question he asked.
QED.
Had he measured power output his result would have been contaminated by the strength of that sunlight, but that is another question.
And he is going to become a damn good scientist I reckon.
He integrated voltage over time, which is meaningless (it does not correspond to the proportion of the panel illuminated). Closed circuit current is proportional to incident photon count (google the photoelectric effect) . In any case, he clearly makes claims about solar panel efficiency, which is related to the ability of the array to deliver power, not voltage:
"is 20 to 50% more efficient than traditional solar arrays"
Not being permitted to reply or comment about a much more serious error that was made several years ago (moderators won't let me).
This is news, why? To me at least, it seems simple logic that a flat array of adjustable panels would be unbeatable. In what way could a tree shaped solar array take in and produce more energy? Many of the panels would be obstructed from the rays at different times. That's obviously not cost effective to begin with. So, here we have people boosting up a kid who invented something that doesn't work as well as what we already have.
The only thing worse than an uneducated idiot is an educated one. It appears there are quite a few of those around this kid.
LOL. In one post you've shown the world that trees and 13 y.o. kids are smarter than you. Good job!
The results were proven false several months ago.
Yeah, the kid's findings were definitely proved false...
It's really the AMNH's fault for not doing due diligence in verifying the boy's claims before awarding him anything. A quick look at the boy's work reveals that his experiment not only doesn't prove his hypothesis, it doesn't even test it. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you're trying to find out how to more efficiently generate power, that you need to measure power generated. This criterion is so straightforward and obvious it's frankly amazing that no one caught the mistake. Trying to determine solar cell performance from the voltage of the unloaded cells is like trying to tell how powerful your car's engine is by measuring its idle RPM–it is fundamentally flawed.
I'm disappointed in all the adults that congratulated the heck out of this kid without checking his work. They've let him be publicly embarrassed, which is not really great encouragement.
Moderators won't let me reply or comment about a much more serious error that was made several years ago ("2004" SC).
It seems to you, well that is why he is using mathematics and measuring the energy collected from his solar panel, and you are regurgitating an opinion. Give the (13 year old) kid a break.
I think a good analogy is that you want to figure out how much water flows through a pipe, and instead of measuring the volume of water, you measure the water pressure.
Soooo... what solar panels were developed? Shouldn't this read... "13 year old solar panel arranger"
Nice comment. What have you done for the Earth this year or better yet what did you do for the Earth by the time you were 13?
Well I invented a better drip coffee pot. Well, actually I just moved it closer to the faucet.
And, umm.
I invented a more efficient furnace. Well, actually I just turned down the thermostat and put on a sweater.
Shoot. I've done nothing for this world. This is terrible.
The better question is: What has this article done for the earth? The answer is: Nothing. The kid did not invent anything, and his arrangement does not work better than what has already been developed. (Read other replies to that effect.)
The only effect this has had is to give hype about a kid for asking questions, and failing to find the right answers. My kids do that all of the time. Why isn't there an article about them? This is normal childhood behavior.
Well, dahhh. It would make poor reading to say he was arranging solar panels....never let accuracy and the truth affect a headline.
Moderators (censors) won't let me bring up a much bigger mistake that was made in 2004 ("SC" – see above definition).
based on the same general idea, wouldn't a mirror-ball type panel model work just as well if not better? I'm assuming the purpose is to generate a system where a minimum number of panels is always presented to the sun as it passes through the sky. so a half sphere model of smaller solar panels would seemingly work as well if not better.
I can see an argument for small panels in a arch-shaped configuration. A full hemisphere sounds wasteful, as the sun travels across the sky on a predictable arc no matter where on Earth you are. Such an arrangement would be a compromise between a fixed direction panel, and a more complicated (mechanically) one that continuously tracks the sun. Only occasional manual adjustment of the arc would be necessary in non-equatorial areas to keep it tilted optimally throughout the year.
Obviously-flawed "discovery" aside, the real failure here is this article. What is CNN doing bringing this back up as news, and why does the author of this article embarrass himself by not only praising a months-old, thoroughly debunked experiment, but by referring to the Fibonacci Sequence as an equation, and then by informing us that 360 / 5 equals 75 rather than the accepted and easily verified value of 72.
I applaud the boy for thinking outside the box, and for getting inspiration from nature (since that's a perfectly valid idea), but give CNN a thumbs down for this article existing.
You know! nothing can break the sound barrier. It has been said by millions of people.lol
ha ha ha ha ha.....
the article is to put a smile on your face.
You did even better.
ha ha ha ha ha.....
Its just a kid doing his science projects in school and getting inspired. The reporter is inspiring us. Don't despair, it takes a curious mind and burden free thought process to fix the world.
My dad wrote most of the essays I was supposed write and speeches I was supposed to give in class, when I was 12/13.
Can't tell from the sheepish grin on his face?
Relax dude.
Moderators are not allowing me to support your comment and bring an even more serious error that occurred in 2004 (but see my attempts to bring it up above).
And I thought this was going to be a story about child labor in China.
he's white.. CNN should write a story on how there's not enough black 13 year old kids in tech
Racist moron.
Actually, there are more than enough.
If stealing electronics counts as Tech well then there are plenty of non-whites in the news.
am kinda happy for this.
Yeah, it says his "grandfather assisted." Let's just say his grandfather probably did 99% of the work, as no 13 year old has the willpower or intelligence to see such projects through to the end.
Way to go Kid-o. Something not all adults can do. I think that's a good inspiration for others and not one of the options for critics..
not everyone lets thier kid sit and watch the boob tube or live on an xbox. My kids can turn a lathe and milling machine
@ 13
Just because your kids have a limited intellect doesn't mean that all kids are like you and yours. Maybe his grandfather just never thought about the trees like his grandson.
you're just mad because one day your kid will be all grown up just as Aiden will be... and your kid will be cleaning Aiden's toilets, while Aiden heads up companies that make a difference.
I applaud this kid, his intelligence level goes way beyond his years. What he needs to do now is get a patent for his ideas. Also for some of you haters get a life and stop hating on a kid, what have any of of you exacltly done for the planet right now or when you were 13 for that matter?
A few years ago my wife was in New Jersey attending a math/compsci program at Rutgers. Her roommate was 14 and a senior computer science major at Carnegie Mellon. On a day trip to IBM her group was introduced to a 13 year old that already had a PhD in mathematics. So, while I applaud this kids drive to learn and be productive (God knows, we could use a whole lot more in this country), he isn't doing anything more than what most kids his age could if they were all given the proper motivation. People have very low expectations from small children.
I forgot to say that I hope his next attempt at science is more successful than this one and that he continues to do science. I'm sure he will learn from the many critiques given by solar power engineers. I wish anyone who takes a professional critique personally luck if they ever submit to a peer-reviewed journal.
Not being allowed by moderators to bring up other examples.
People really underestimate the abilities of teenagers, The fact that people are impressed by this project is proof of it. I congratulate the kid for learning science and trying to improve upon solar panel designs but this design doesn't go beyond the capabilities of a 13 year old. Its something many kids would do if given the right resources. Kids learn faster than adults but the school system doesn't recognize it. They are also generally more motivated when it comes to learning. That is why schools fail. Even though this was an inexpensive project, imagine trying to implement it with the few hundred dollar bankroll of the average 13 year old. This guy succeeds because he is given the opportunity and has resources to fund his projects. Many more kids would be the same way If parents gave their kids a bankroll that they can spend on scientific projects and self learning instead of pushing their kids into sports. I struggled on my scientific endeavors growing up because I didn't have any money to build anything. I worked a feull summer freshman year of highschool at mcdonalds and got enough money to assemble my own pc. I built geocities websites and angel fire websites in grade school because I couldn't even afford an actual domain. I obtained an electrical engineering degree from the university of iowa and still had problems in college funding my senior design project which was a wireless gps tracker.
Amazing Solar Power is the way to go
It is high time to get rid of environment-damaging Fossil Fuels based transportation
My Apps on Android Market: https://market.android.com/developer?pub=Farhan+Munir
Museum admits mistake but wont correct award http://www.amnh.org/news/2011/08/valuable-lesson-about-variables/
Bad science, bad journalism, bad museum. Award should have gone to the next participant. CNN should be covering that, I expect more.
Mistakes are the key to learning, the fact that he had a great idea at such a young age is well enough to award a prize and will encourage him to improve the idea into something great.
This is only the beginning of his life, imagine what he will think of with lessons in differential calculus and science.
Besides, understanding electricity and photons requires a background in physics and chemistry, something not widely taught to children.
Are you saying that the next kid, who worked just as hard, and whose experiment worked, is somehow less successful than this kid, whose thought process and experiment failed?
You must be a politician.
This is what we need today, a young generation of kids creating new ideas that can improve on inventions that are already here. You will be suprised how science has an impact on kids. I am interested in science but the school I come from makes it so boring.
Suggestion: Maybe instead of a tree, why not make it a ball of solar panels. It sounds childish but it could have the same efficiency as the tree since it would collect the rays of the sun from the rising to the setting of the sun.
I had a similar idea but on a smaller scale. I thought to build a solar tower with panels arranged to emulate fast growing weeds/plants. It seems to be logical that this design has been proven by nature to capture the most amount of sun light. That is why some weeds crowd out other slower growing plants. I don't know the science behind it but isn't a leaf ike a natural solar panel. So all you need to do is take a walk through a forest.
This design is not "proven by nature to capture the most amount of sunlight". Leaves are also designed to take in carbon dioxide and give off oxygen, among other things.
Wow! We can only substantiate what Mr. Sutter reports here. We too, have researched the extraordinary effect of the Fibonacci sequence for humans. We have special, relaxing sounds coordinated according to the Fibonacci sequence, which have beneficial effects on the psyche. The result is much more than we anticipated. This way, we can bring about a condition of deep relaxation and motivation in only 3 minutes, which would never be possible with the ordinary arrangement of sounds. These 3 minute long sound-clips work faster and are more effective than anything else we currently know of. Nature shows us the pattern. Personality enhancing programs abound. But with Fibonacci they become unbelievably effective and lasting. Here is a link for more information: http://www.fibolife.com/blog. LiftYourLife SoundPads.
November 18th??? http://optimiskeptic.com/2011/08/21/this-is-where-bad-science-starts/
Arranging solar panels over a sphere (disco-ball mirrors-style) will 'cover' any sunlight/panel relative orientation.. All the Fibonacci-seq-related derivations are misleading and useless..
Saty
[need just an upward-facing hemisphere instead of a sphere]
Even better – a hemisphere covered with a microstructure of close-packed (eg. hexagonal) small hemispheres, each smaller hemisphere being an independent collector. No other geometric configuration could beat this.
Saty Raghavachary
While your hemisphere would guarantee a small percentage of the panels would be in the ideal collecting orientation at any one point in time, it would be grossly inefficient. By definition, if a small percentage are in an ideal position, the vast majority are not. So the efficiency of the entire array would be very low. Thanks for playing...
Fair enough
Yes, most of the panels would be useless.. Better, then, to use just a section of the hemisphere – the exact area would depend on the installation location (for mass manufacturing, this would mean coming up with pre-set variations over the surface).
In addition, using a hemispherical microstructure (instead of a flat panel) will increase collection.
Cheers,
Saty
I'm just glad this kid wasn't a member of The Second Mile. He's be icing his bottom and talking to shrinks instead of developing cool solar stuff.
Can't we just be excited that this young man has accomplished more than probably 90% of kids his age in science and math!? You go young man, I can't wait to see what you will develop and discover in the future!
I my self was talking about these kind of stories in general.I wish the Kid nothing but love.
It seems to me that if every story about solar panels being 20% better or cheaper were true 1 square acre of panels would cost $50 and power New York by now.
What have you heard psycho?
Please provide references.
I stand corrected there has never been anybody to claim 20% improvements ever. I made the hole thing up.With your calling me names proves your superior argument.
One more thing BITE ME.
I googled "BITE ME" and couldn't find any reference to an acre of solar panels that would power New York for 50 bucks.
Help me here.
Did you read that I said "IF every story was true"Also it was sarcasm. Again I say BITE ME.
Spend your time doing something useful other than trolling a forum for no other reason than to annoy others. I pity your pathetic ways
I'm not out to simply annoy others. I'm out to annoy mouth breathing brainwashed idiots that bash renewable energy.
What is your excuse?
Jimmy your an idiot, learn some english.
These are the type of stories we want to read and hear about, .. not celebrity crap.
This is why our country's future is bright. Not because of celebrities.
Will the Corporations buy him out so another idea is put into storage and kept from the Public, so the Beast can keep everyone hooked up to the money milking machine.
Based on the comments here, this kid is getting a rapid education on how fossil fuel funded smear campaigns work.
I am hopeful that he kicks their @$$.
Hey man, flawed science is flawed science, whether it comes from an MIT research team or a science fair project. The kid measured open-circuit voltage across a bunch of solar panels wired in serial and came to the conclusion that his arrangement is more efficient. Unfortunately, "efficiency" here means a measurement of work done per unit volume of energy, and that's not what he measured. Voltage equals potential, not work. If he comes back with proof that his arrangement provides a greater amount of watts per hour than a comparable flat arrangement of PV cells, I'll be more impressed.
You were doing great up until "watts per hour"
I work in patent and trademark law and am laughing at all of you engineers who think you are so clever by knocking down a 13 year old who is THINKING. You engineers mostly work for corporations which assign you one little task and more often than not you botch it. None of you spend any time questioning the validity of the status quo and whether tiny improvement A to widget B is of any value to the universe outside corporate profits. What a bunch of punks! This kid is trying to create something that will make life better on this planet... bet you haven't done the same since you took your corporate payoff. Sorry engineers, you have sold yourself and this country down the tube by designing products under Planned Obsolescence guidelines. Get the plank out of your own eye before worrying about the mote in this kids' eye. Old Thomas Alva made thousands of "mistakes" in his lifetime, and if you will be honest, you make more mistakes than inventions.
irrelevant. Address to functionality of the device and let that be it.
Unfortunately, this kid is not "thinking"... He's "pretending".
boB
I think the kid is right on all fronts. Trees that have had the benefit of millions of years to perfect a sun light gathering arrangement for their leaves are a logical model for us to examine when trying to arrange solar cells. Having a flat panel with all its surface area dedicated to a fixed orientation cannot be the answer.
Get past open ended voltage stuff and look at the logic in the broader project – Finding the optimal arrangement for solar panels. An original thought by a 13 year old kid inspired by nature.
Using the structure of a tree is a novel idea but I think the premise that this is the correct solution is a bit myopic. Trees have to carry out many different functions to survive in the wild. Gathering sunlight is just one of many reasons evolution has caused trees to grow in specific structures. I think the kid has a very cool experiment, however it does appear as if he is reaching for the conclusion that the Fib sequence is directly responsible for the increase in energy intake. If this kid were an adult would we take this seriously? The novelty is that he is young and looks like the new 'IT' tech CEO of some start-up company. Those of us that know better are hoping that those who don't will eventually see the connection between this kid and the countless other fast talking full of fluff CEO's we've got running around.
Does anyone reading this honestly think that the amount of the sun's radiation hitting a tree (determined by the size of the tree's shadow, if drawing an analogy with stationary solar panels) is more than the amount of the sun's radiation that would hit all of the leaves if they were spread out in one layer on the ground (an area much bigger than the tree's shadow)?
OK then, why don't you help him out and TRY to patent this great invention??!! Are you sure you work in IP?
Yeah, I think all tries (but failures) should be reported on by CNN. Edison would then have been featured 1000 times (and I would have been featured at least 10) !!!
He did not create a solar panel. Who writes this crap?
He came up with an impractical idea which might be helpful. the problem is.. in a tree design some panels would occlude others depending on the angle of the sun. If you want to achieve high output rates the best surface is still a flat surface. You can already make them follow the sun. Adorning a treelike structure would be a colossal waste of panels most of the time.
well put. This design works for trees because branches are cheap to 'build' whereas solar panels are not. Not only would some panels block others, put the installers would be mounting panels that actually point away from the sun at all times. Certainly this kid is quite intelligent but anyone who knows anything about solar panels would quickly see that this idea is silly.
What is so strange in knowing the Fibonacci sequence at the age of 13? This is standard material in many European schools and widely popularized on various science channels.
I think the notable part was looking at trees and recognizing the pattern in their geometry, not just knowing the sequence.
Then why didn't all those millions of kids cone up with the idea?
While i think it is great to see youth so interested in science:
Front page central feature for something that has already been debunked as a flawed study and also an illogical notion itself?
CNN, are you even trying anymore?
Hey snoopy are you from nj?
This IS ingenious. After all, plants evolved to display it's leaves in an arrangment to collect the most sunlight to survive. Great artists get inspiration from nature.
This is NOT ingenious. Plants have evolved to collect sunlight and carbon dioxide, give off oxygen, be structurally sufficient without being wasteful, be able to procreate, etc. These are different requirements than for solar panels.
I HOPE WE GET HIM IN THE KIDDIE DRAFT!
When I was 10 years old I came home one day and told my mom that adults were worthless, lying, sacks of )))). 40 years later they are still the same. I hope this next generation of kids don't grow up to be what generations before them were including my useless, greedy and decadent one.
Projecting much?
Isn't this the same story that was thoroughly debunked months ago? The kid gets credit for trying, he's just a kid afterall, but he measured the wrong thing so the results are meaningless. Trees point their leaves every which way because in terms of effort by the tree, creating a leaf is cheap but moving a leaf is expensive. Building a solar panel however is expensive, and moving one is cheap. You will ALWAYS get the most energy by pointing the panel towards the sun at the optimum angle.
Actually you don't even have to move the solar panel. A stationary solar panel, oriented for maximum midday exposure, will generate more power than any other configuration.
As you say, the kid measured the wrong thing. He measured the voltage across the panels when no load is connected, which is meaningless. It just means SOME of the panels were getting SOME light, but as soon as you put a load you will see it is not delivering much power altogether, because the average exposure across all the panels is much worse.
"than any other STATIONARY configuration", is what I mean to say.
On one hand, I think it is great that the kid has taken an interest in science. On the other hand, solar panels are expensive. Most people will want their solar panels arranged in such a way as to produce the maximum amount of energy using the fewest panels, and the kid's design is not particularly good at that.
I'm not sure how this is a new idea. Ideally, the panels would move with the sun to collect as much sunlight as possible. If this configuration does not do that, then the result WILL be less efficient. Also, the shadows caused by the 'tree' would very likely provide voids on panels during certain times of day. Not to mention, it is more expensive to build a 'tree' and would be more expensive to maintain and service.
The data he provided in his presentation proved it to be about 20% more efficient. As for cost, why does it matter? Like all tech, it will probably start out being pricy and come down in time. The thing to focus on here is that a 13-yr old mind came up with something truly remarkable and we need to encourage and applaud kids like him.
His data is meaningless, it's good kids at his age are interested in science, however, he hasn't learned what is the right thing to measure yet
Even though his conclusions are quite likely all wrong and/or out in the weeds...
Ya gotta give the kid credit for at least trying to think his way thru something else besides how to finish the next level of Zelda or C.O.D. or whatever is the latest/greatest video game out there.
CNN is still a day late and a dollar short though...
Makes me proud to be American! This is what this country is all about folks. We need to help our youth! This kid is awesome!
Congratulations Adian Dwyer!
The arrangement of branches on a tree is not actually presented as a Fibonacci sequence. He's looking at a screw axis of a symmetry operator. Either way, at least he's trying to be creative.
P.S. If you don't like people criticizing your work then science probably isn't for you.
Is that how you read his defence of his project? I think that you're the one with thin skin.
You have to look down at it from the top center of his project. The spiral gets closer as it gets move to the top. Plus, as he included, trees and their branches have different ratios of the sequence's pattern. From what I can tell, he's right on. He wouldn't bet getting all this attention if he was just being creative.
ahem, "haters gonna hate."
AIDAN,
Congrats & Kudols......
Much like the science project ideology, you've kind of created a Fibonacci Sequence of pros & cons. Nothing gets by these critics, not even the light of day. Certainly, if none other, you stirred up stagnant brain waves as we attempt to see the forest through the trees, or the leaves around the branches.
Feel proud ,partially right or wrong, You are Ground Zero! Action creates Reaction! Keep it up & keep "em Guessing! CM
and the reason ideas like this are never implemented and we're still stuck with (for example) the internal combustion engine is because everyone's online... bickering.
and the reason ideas like this are never implemented and we're still stuck with (for example) the internal combustion engine is because they're not yet more cost effective than existing methods.
The fact that new energy sources such as wind, solar is not as cost effective as fossil fuel and coal should not be reason we don't pursue such alternative energy sources. If people would have stopped using fossil fuel because it was harder to get and purify to make them usable, we would still be using steam engines.
Whew! For a moment I was afraid you were going to put words or meaning into my comment that aren't there, and make me out to be a naysaying curmudgeon. Fortunately you did not, and both my post and your reply are fundamentally sound.
The reason we're "stuck" with things like the internal combustion engine is that nobody has come up with something better that actually works. That's not to say that it won't happen, but it hasn't yet. The people who applaud bogus "inventions" are people who don't understand the technology in question. For the record, I don't blame the kid a bit, it's great that he's trying, now hopefully he will learn from is mistakes and take proper measurements next time. He's only 13 afterall, and the greatest inventors in history failed more often than they succeeded. Failure is not a reason to give up, it's and opportunity to eliminate one more thing that didn't work.
A number of more effective engines were developed beyond the internal combustion. Most were bought by the automakers and disappeared. Things seem to finally be changing though.
To be fair, it just doesn't make sense logically. It's an interesting concept, and usually we think of nature as taking the best route to efficiency, but in this case its just not true.
It's extremely efficient for a tree to make tons of leaves at a variety of angles, its extremely inefficient for a tree to move those leaves. Since solar panels are exactly the opposite, its a logical fallacy that the same concept would apply.
Dear American Engineer and James. Bollocks. The reason we are stuck with the current engine is because corporations like ARCO Oil and Gas Company have spent 60 years buying up efficient changes in said engine and alternate energy patents. All now owned by BP, of course. Of COURSE they spent billions on this because they were worthless and no threat to oil and gas sales. Free search engine at the USPTO will show you alternates.
It's repeated over and over, but children have a unique perspective to looking at the world. This insight allows them to grow and eventually become adults. Full grown adults are trying to stomp on the ideas of a child, that's wrong.
Good for you kid! Don't let these naysayers bring you down with their negative and uneducated comments. Most of them don't have the balls to get their asses off the couch let alone try something like what you've done! Keep at it!
Some of us are engineers who *do* create things people use every day. We're not bashing the kid, we're bashing the ignorant media that let bad science get out of hand. The kid is doing great, hopefully next time he'll take proper measurements and realize why this particular idea won't work.
Finnally someone seeing this whole story for what it's worth, CNN fluffing somthing to an obscene amount to try and MAKE news!
James, you create what your corporate bosses tell you to create. No deviation from what works for them, and certainly nothing that would put them out of business. Sure you create.
Sunlight is free; panels are expensive. Nature indeed knows optimization well–in Africa Savanna, trees tend to have huge flat crown rather than the common shapes this boy paid attention to.
Still, kudos to him for being observant and connectively thinking. The problem is it's been blown out of proportion by the adults who find value in getting attention, including this news outlet.
It's not that simple. There are all kinds of adaptation mechanisms at work besides sunlight. Some trees will abcise their leaves under conditions of a combination of too much sun and heat.
Don't you dare to criticize me, hey, I'm only 12!
And I'll have an army of those who have no clue what you and I were talking about to come to my defense.
Haha, it's nice to be 12, or 13, ain't it?
A good working brain is always welcome .. it matters little if the solar panel arrangement idea will go further or not .. what matters is that the young man is smart and we need such brains ... a lot.
So, good luck!
People don't understand that when you have a motor that is used to rotate a solar stationary setup to stay with the sun...is actually using the energy to run the motor....so the total output for other devices is minimal. This kid could be on to something. It is not just about the look of having a solar cell that makes you look good. Some flat panels now a days that have triangle interior peaks and valleys do get more output...but if applied to his idea might be steroids. kudos kid.
make solar panels like clouds. they are higher in the sky and can get more sunlight. now can i get my cnn article?
Get outta here kid, you're botherin' me! – W.C. Fields
Using single or dual axis trackers does not use most of the Energy. A dual axis tracker INCREASE the output (after subtracting the energy used by the tracker) by about 20-40%. The problems with trackers is they eventually break because they have moving parts and therefore for some are not an option.. A stationary system while somewhat less effecent in watt per panel has advantages of being light enough to install on a roof top and not utilize area that has other uses. While the panels are expensive, with falling panel prices, often the rest of the system (inverters, wireing, mounting, installation, ...) that is about as expensive or even more so than the panel cost.
We are witnessing another potential Da Vinci – at 13 years of age this kid is not only witnessing another instance of what's called the "Golden Ratio" or "Divine Proportion" which based on the Fibonacci Sequence, but understanding how evolution solved the problem of how plants maximize the exposure of their leaves to light – beautiful. Of course the deductive, and overly logical naysayers will try to prove this kid wrong, but the great inventors always utilized more intuitive methods to make great discoveries. Science usually gets a reputation for being dry and boring, but Dwyer brings back the excitement.
he does make for a pretty good side show doesn't he; as wrong as he may be.
Erm, what was he wrong about?
"Erm, what was he wrong about?" - the cost effectiveness of a Fibonacci Series-based solar cell array vs. existing methods.
He measured open circuit voltage, not power. The open circuit voltage of a silicon solar cell varies very little over a wide range of light falling on the cell. When you apply a load to the cell, the voltage sags heavily. The more light on the cell, the more current it can produce and the less the voltage will sag. Power is a product of voltage and current, you need both or the measurement is meaningless. An analogy of what he has done is invented a car that goes 500 miles and claimed revolutionary efficiency, but failed to measure or account for how many gallons of fuel it burns to go those miles. It's a simple mistake, can't blame the kid for making it, but it should serve as an educational mistake, not snowball into front page news.
Good for you, James; one of the few voices of reason, sanity, and technical accuracy on this chat.
While this person's work is great and should be encouraged, understanding and mimmicking nature is not exactly the new, da Vinci style breakthrough that you seem to think.
He brings the excitement back to science only if you're a Justin Bieber fan or Jerry Sandusky.
I also point out that this is impressive only in the sense that, unlike this kid, most Americans, in general, are lazy, fat and stupid – most kids in Asian and Northern European countries know math to this level by about age 10, if not younger. The difference is, most teachers in the United States don't know about Fibonacci numbers and the golden mean because THEY were never taught it either, because mainstreaming teaches to the lowest common denominator, and believe it or not, smart kids just don't teach themselves everything on the side. Thanks to my own lackluster public school education (and in the Northeast, too, I'm not talking about Texas or Alabama), I hardly knew there were other bases of number system besides decimal until I got to college, and most Americans don't even understand the concept of a number system at all, when it's the fundamental basis of computer theory, our financial system, distance measurement, geometry, etc. Almost all teachers in the U.S. make less than garbage men, even private school teachers. Another of nature's basic principles, as well as computer science's, that goes unnoticed (read: ignored) by popular culture and mainstream American news outlets – garbage in, garbage out. If you put less than garbage in, what do you expect to get out the other end? America, F-YEAH!!!
They're most certainly going to be teaching Fibonacci at my kid's private school before grade 5 or 6 (parent-founded/funded school, they wanted better for their kids than public school, they educate in cheap, temporary modular structures, rely on parents for almost every resource, and the parents see the value and many times go without in order to make sure the school stays open – think home schooling without the antisocial bent). They tolerate NO hitting or bullying, encourage (and require) deep family involvement in the classroom or at many community social events that anyone could make no matter how many jobs they work, and the student-to-teacher ratio is from 5:1 to 3:1 (compare that to 30:1 at your average public school). He's 6 1/2 and he speaks 3 languages, two of which are taught in school, which is also not unheard of either in other parts of the world). I bought my house from an ethnically Korean family, where every one of their 5 or 6 children knew English as well as Korean, and also how to play at least 2 of: cello, viola, violin and piano, and there were chalk boards all over the house with "words of the day". Not surprisingly, he was a radiologist. What are the odds his kids are going to show up on Maury or a reality television show? His kids will be the 1% and so will mine. Invest early, invest often.
It's not rocket science or supernatural that nature always takes the path of least resistance, hence the golden mean and the Fibonacci sequence, that, as simple as they are, can exactly model many, many things Americans attribute to God (which is exactly why most of the world thinks we've become fat, lazy, stupid, and ignorant over the years – after we landed on the moon we got complacent). If there is a God, he/she most certainly didn't command us to be ignorant of our surroundings like this. To guarantee a child's success, the path of least resistance is the path of education, science and arts, as well as a strong sense of community, when he/she is YOUNG. To those who take their own path of least resistance by turning on the TV or eating out at McDonald's, you get what YOU deserve, but not what your kid deserves, and certainly not what MY KID deserves when your kid steals my kid's stereo for smack in 20 years.
This science fair kid is a cute kid and extremely clever (I assume his parents are both highly educated professionals who also value education and hard work), but how about we improve the U.S. public education system so that this kid is the rule rather than the exception? I could list 10 kids just like this kid that go to my son's school. Take your kids to the museum once in a while instead of Chuck E. Cheese's. The excitement never left science – Van De Graff generators (lightning machines), exhibits about how the Earth formed, experiments with light and sound waves, planetariums, aquariums, and mostly available for a small donation, you just need to turn off the TV once in a while, pack a lunch and go embrace your children's futures. It should be an embarrassment to the United States that this story makes the news. The average Pakistani citizen would literally kill you to have the access to museums and cultural centers we get dropped into our American laps almost for free, yet somehow never use.
I'm not the 1% yet, but in order to give my kids a shot at 1% I expect better from them than America's public schools, and would gladly pay even more in taxes to give better educations to ALL children in the U.S., because these are the seedlings of the people that my children will be living among when he grows up, and it's up to all of us to ensure that ignorance and mediocrity don't continue to be generational. It's counterproductive and hurtful to your own children and grandchildren (and, in Texas or Alabama, great-grandchildren) to starve public education by slashing public budgets, not to mention shimming prayer into public curriculum wherever possible. Do you want your kid to be drinking his coffee at his desk in 20 years, zoned out at work, reading CNN while avoiding his boss, Mr. Jørgensen, when he's YOUR age?
Something to think about... And apologies to the residents of Austin. Please exempt yourselves from the Texas bashing above...
Your son will probably surprise you greatly by what he chooses to do with his adult life.
this was debunked quite a long time ago,
why is is making the front page now if at all?
new idea – FIBONACCI sphere. now can i get my cnn article? i'm 12 and what is this?
Because CNN hires clueless interns as news editors. If you've ever seen a CNN "science" article you'll know what I mean.
Your a moron!
"Your a moron!" - the irony says it all.
Well that's ironic. Go find a dictionary, look up "your", then look up "you're", and remember, the only difference between helping your uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse is simple grammar.
Thanks, Chris, I needed the laugh.
I'm not being allowed by moderators to bring up other examples from the past (but see my latest attempts at commenting to get a hint).
this was debunked quite a long time ago, why is is making the front page now if at all?
Easy. $$$. (and slow news day?)
"slow news day" - especially evidenced by this story's near-instantaneous removal from CNN's Front Page as a result of CNN being called out on such shoddy journalism. Hey, these comment sections really do work!
Sincerest kudos to Aidan Dwyer, and all who are like him, and please please please never stop THINKing!
This sequence of posts illustrate again, that it is much easier to destroy something than to create.
Exactly – they're only jealous they didn't make the discovery themselves. These naysayers should remember a quote from Ronald Reagan: There is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit.
He measured the open circuit voltage. Have him measure the power into a load and then come back to us and we'll be impressed. Unless you can explain the difference between voltage and power, you have no business knocking the naysayers.
I thought the whole clean energy movement was run by 13 year olds.
Judging by your name, I'll assume you're a "drill, baby, drill" advocate. These types say "get a job", but the minute people use their brains to innovate something new and potentiallycreate many jobs that help the environment, someone like you comes along and insults them.
It makes perfect sense, trees had hundreds of millions of years to perfect how to squeeze the most from the sun.....it is like one of those realization that makes you always wonder why no one ever realized the concept of gravity after objects have been hitting you in the head long enough to evolve a hard skull....Knuckle head?
Leaves are cheap to make and hard to move. Solar panels are expensive to make and easy to move. Trees have entirely different requirements than a solar panel array, it's a good idea, but it doesn't work. He measured the wrong thing and hasn't followed up with a measurement of power vs cost. Come back with the right measurements and we can take it into consideration.
A 13 year old is either an eighth grader or an high school freshman. Not many 13 year olds could do what he did. It really fascinates me that he saw a Fibonacci series tree limbs! That requires a priori knowledge of Fibonacci series, Most 13 year olds wouldn't know a Fibonacci series from a mud puddle. I wish all kids were like him, then we could begin beating the pants off China.
Scientific advances come from tweaking more than from eureka moments. This kid is to be praised! He is to be encouraged. If he is to be debunked let his peers do it, It would be good for them. Old farts, either encourage him or leave him alone. Grownups owe this kid a lot of encouragement. Don't criticize him like one of your peers.
The issue is the questionable journalism on the part of CNN , too bad they don't don't put as much passion into their journalism as this kids puts into his science project.
+1 JohnDavid. I was thinking the same thing myself, as I was wondering why an editor would send a journalist who doesn't know what the Fibonacci Series is to cover a story involving one.
+1+2+3+5+8 JohnDavid, now can I get my cnn article?(I included your +1 American Engineer before you fail to see the big picture yet again)
Your cleverest comment thus far, O-C-V.
Pleas be patient, a CNN journalist is on the way.
Don't know why, but I'm not being allowed to reply or comment relating to a much more serious error that was made several years ago (moderators won't let me).
OK, all ye trolls & trollettes. It's late and I'm off to bed. Thanks for the chat.
This is not a new idea and was in college text books for engineering back in the 1990's. Good for the kid on being studious and motivated, how much better off we'd all be if even a slightly larger portion of the population came at life the same way this kids does.
This Fibonacci Sequence is 9th grade geometry. It's strange that somebody didn't make this connection sooner.
this was debunked as a total pander months ago. enjoying reading all your comments though. CNN, you need to up your game.
As a teacher who homeschooled a child prior to his acceptance to MIT, Caltech, Cornell, and 7 other top universities to study engineering, I applaud this student and his supportive family. Obviously, his family is not poor, but you can't just buy components and get fluency in math and science. Since most adults don't umderstand what this child understands, it's a sad commentary that his critics can't throw in a little praise for his efforts. He has both brains and family support. If more adults would invest time and a bit of money in their kids' education beyond the school offerings, we would nlt have to import so many highly educated professionals to make up the shortfall.
Anyone can teach a monkey to dress himself, but to teach him to type out the Ghettysburg Address, now that is a special feat.
To teach them how to spell Gettysburg would be even more amazing.
+1 to Jason.
Solar panels collect the most energy when they are perpendicular to the light source–it's as simple as that. There's no mystery to it, and putting them in a tree formation will not increase, but DECREASE the amount of energy they can collect.
It would be great if we can keep all of the solar panels facing directly at the sun at the time, but the sun moves. A tree leaf formation allows near constant light collection regardless of the time without the need to manually adjust the solar panels, which costs energy and/or manpower. Try putting some more thought into your statement please.
Try putting some more thought into your statement, yourself. This isn't rocket science. Yes, his idea is clever (I'm not knowledgeable enough about this field to know whether or not it is novel), but the conditions/criteria whereby his idea becomes more cost effective than existing methods are not too difficult to discern.
He's right, and many solar panels are designed to move in concert with the sun, so that it is always exactly perpendicular to the orientation of the sun's rays. Putting them in a tree formation will cause most of the cells to be at a somewhat inefficient angle to collect sunlight. Also, if you have a lot of cells, many of them will have a loss of light due to shadows cast by the cells at the top.
Trees have thousands of leaves, and it makes sense that they evolved to adopt this configuration of cells.. but to maximize photon intake, placing them flat and perpendicularly to the sun in still the most efficient method.
If solar panels were as cheap as leaves, his idea would make sense. The current problem is that solar panels are extremely expensive, it's much cheaper to mount a smaller number of panels on a mechanism that moves them to follow the sun. Even with the parasitic energy consumption of the positioner it's still cheaper than having loads of panels pointing every which way.
if this were true, then why aren't trees shaped like flat solar panels? This idea is inevitable.. if no room for panels, just go up..and then what? you end up with a tree looking gadget anyway, to increse odds of absorption. Some peoples science is as crazy as an air dam on on a gopher...anf they keep replacing that air dam, claiming efficient.
Simple, it's because trees lack muscles and can't rapidly move to keep their leaves facing the sun. If they could, they might be big flat things, look at pond lilies.
The sun does not shine straight down, it is always moving, so a flexible tree model makes sense.
All those haters can go suck an egg.
If a 13 year old can come up with an idea to improve solar energy tech, then he's all good. Maybe his technique or methology can use some tweaks and improvements. That's how science progresses. If you have nothing to contribute except doubt and criticize, then kindly shut up and let the people in the frontier do their research in peace.
Nobody is criticizing the kid, we're criticizing the journalism, clearly performed by folks who know nothing about solar technology.
Good points! My experience is that journalists are completely in the dark when it comes to matters of science (I guess if they could have been scientists they wouldn't have gone into journalism).
I think Obama is right – Americans got lazy, Moore is right as well, Americans got stupid.
I am a product designer and this kids attempt while interesting while flawed is also wrong.
He uses Volts but Volts is not representing energy this is current.
He uses a 45 degree fixed setup, and this is not optimal for flat panels.
Did he consider how large this object would need to be to produce the same amount
of energy a flat panel during optimal exposure to sun produces?
The costs for a rotating system would probably be cheaper than this large design
which holds 3 to 4 times the amount of expensive solar panels.
His design idea is not new – it is actually used already.
I do not flaw the kid, I accuse the parents for not being honest, I accuse the teachers for not being strict, and I accuse the media for giving this kid the impression he did good, when in actuality he did not.
This is why the USA looses – it cannot be critical.
At least he's smart & trying to utilize his math & science skils to solve our energy problem. Don't discourage him. He seems smart enough to be willing to take advice so that he can improve & make this a reality.
Nobody is bashing the kid, it's great that he's giving it a go, we're bashing the media for carrying on about this. The end result will be a lot greater disappointment when the poor kid realizes the invention he's been toiling away on is a dead end.
What were you doing at 13? This kid has stummbled onto something, that in time, could be a great benefit to our enviornment.
I would respect your opinion more if you could write proper English. Sorry, but as a writer, that's my prejudice: I have a hard time believing someone is really intelligent if they don't write well.
Thank you for taking her to task on her lack of writing skill, but I wouldn't even respect this comment if it were written with the articulateness of Steinbeck.
"giving this kid the impression he did good, when in actuality he did not." - Incorrect (more than just your poor grammar, even). Of course he did a good thing - by coming up with an idea, thinking about something that (he thought) was novel, and acting on it.
It's not a matter of whether or not the idea has been technologically debunked. Did Thomas Edison do a "bad" thing by making 10,000 wrong guesses on materials to use for a durable light-emitting filament?
The boy did a GOOD THING. Just because it's incorrect doesn't make what he did any less GOOD - because the "good thing" that he did is really entirely different from the idea itself.
I applaud this boy, and hope that he comes up with 10,000 more ideas - never flagging in his ingenuity or his enthusiam.
Another American Engineer who fails to see the big picture.
Actually, Open-Current, the big picture is we need MANY more kids like this. Kids who are passionate about learning, motivated to try and willing to try and make a difference. That is the ONLY big picture here.
On the contrary, the big picture is clearly in focus to me. cekuhnen is correct in her technical commentary, but incorrect in her vilification of those who have encouraged this boy. Encouraging a child to "THINK" (thank you, Mr. Watson), is way more important than stifling their enthusiasm to be creative and innovative. If cekuhnen had her way, the boy would have been smacked down at the first mention of his idea.
There's nothing wrong with encouraging a child to do well. Praising a child of mediocrity is the American way I suppose. Good luck learning Chinese.
There is nothing wrong with a middle-schooler being "mediocre" relative to the entire scientific community. I'm not praising his idea; I'm praising the fact that he had one - and acted on it - which already places him above "mediocre" by any reckoning. Oh, and 頑張ります.
learn how to make a nucULAR power plant that doesn't melt through. domo arigato. トロール
You're getting more clever as the night goes on. 良く出来ました。
Of course the kid did a good thing, the fact remains that he measured the wrong thing and hasn't followed up. This should be a teachable moment, but media who knows nothing about the technology is making it front page news again instead.
"It's not a matter of whether or not the idea has been technologically debunked. Did Thomas Edison do a "bad" thing by making 10,000 wrong guesses on materials to use for a durable light-emitting filament?"
Edison didn't make headlines with ANY of his inventions that didn't work and where not very close to commercialization. Steve Jobs never said ANYTHING until he had a product ready for sale (he probably had many under secret development).
Do you fall in the same group with those you criticize? After all, each statement you made is incoherent because of major grammatical mistakes or lack of words all together.
you nailed it. open-CIRCUIT-voltage is a lesson yet to be learned by this "genius". lets give him a nobel because he is 13 and can say fibonacci...
The more you post, the more jealous you sound. If I had to judge your age by the content of your posts, I would guess younger than this kid.
Would that be a bad thing considering how I understand the flaws in his "breakthrough"?
Hit the nail on the head. Media loves kids. Very very sad that media took it this far.
Part of the "peopleization" of CNN. An ongoing phenomena... gotta fight FOX with "smiles". Still a bright articulate kid. I wish him well.
same here. I wish him well, but don't put him on a pedestal before he's earned it.
actually power is volts times amps (current) equals watts(power). We will both understand that capacitance and inductance don't exist in this equation. Don't over complicate his point...please.
Watt are you talking about?
Now *that's* just cliche', O-C-V. Shame on you!
Voltage is not current, current is amperes.
Furthermore, he doesn't use flat panels, that's the whole idea here.
Last but not least, you sure are a pretentious **** for someone you can barely speak English.
From a Republican, i first hand demote this idea of clean energy and demand we drill baby drill!!! ancient technology is the way to go...pollute!!!!! Down with clean energy.
Said like a real idiot!!!
good for him!! it's sad to see the negative comments being posted. in a country that sees the quality of education on the decline, it's great that there are still youth interested in the world of science. isn't math and science the weakest areas for students in the U.S.? This kid is 13 years old so whatever flaws or miscalculations there are, this kid explicitly states that he's still working on his research. I certainly applaud him for trying, having courage to speak at a conference, and to continue to work despite the negativity. This is awesome to see, and I hope he keeps it up.
It's not more efficient, it's more panels. Look at the picture, 10 panels laying flat, yet I can count at least 17 on the "tree". Of course having nearly twice as many panels will produce more electricity. This is a huge flaw in the logic of this "experiment".
The point of his design, if you read the article again, is that it collects more light in areas with clouds, tree, etc. In that way, it may be more efficient. At the very least, his design is worth studying further and tweaking. BTW, for a great article on the benefits of tweaking and how much they have done for human progress, check out Malcolm Gladwell's most recent article. He discusses how Steve Jobs was a master "tweaker" – and we all know how much he contributed.
I think there are 10 panels on the other side of the roof of the house, so the house and the tree each have 20 panels.
In almost all areas of research, discovery is made on an incremental basis. Only a few brilliant/lucky individuals make quantum leaps in research. When working on my graduate degree I found out how many of my 'original' thoughts had already been discovered. This didn't detract from my efforts. It demonstrated that discovery is a proccess we can all take part in, even if it isn't original.
This young man is taking his first steps in the path of discovery. I hope he is encouraged to keep on looking at his world for ways to understand and improve it.
Very true Chuck. The thing these haters on this comment section fail to grasp is that the foundation of science is building on other peoples ideas. Lets just pray this kid doesn't read all the hateful crap on here, theres enough jealous whiny adults on here blasting him to quash any interest he has left in the field.
Did you miss that we're hating on the media, not on the poor kid? Sooner or later he's gonna realize his idea doesn't work and his science is flawed. That's ok, he's a kid, he'll learn, kudos for the effort, but why are so many people who don't understand the difference between Volts, Amps, and Watts bashing knowledgeable folks for being "haters"?
holy shnikys Bieber has a nerd for a little bro
I JUST FIBONACCI'D MY WAY ON TO CNN. THIS KID IS THE REASON WHY AMERICA IS FAILING. GOOGLE MY NAME OR STUDY ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING TO FIND OUT WHY.
BTW THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS OPEN-CURRENT-VOLTAGE!!!
SURE there is idiot – a circuit can have voltage and no current! What do you think a switch does – MORON!
open-CIRCUIT-voltage is something a 14 year old would know of, but for a 13 year old, it is too radical a concept.
Perhaps the article writer got it wrong, or perhaps the kid did. So what? I still think his ideas should be researched further and innovation such as his encouraged.
Please tell me you aren't going to be that petty, slamming this kid for using a wrong term at 13 years old? I have a bigger problem with professional engineers, college professors and Presidents using the tern nucular in place of nuclear.
Once this kid has a chance to finish high school and earn a college degree, then you will be justified in your criticism, until then it just reeks of jealousy.
"I'm 13 and I can say Fibonacci. Give me an article on CNN so morons can think I'm smart and admire my breakthrough work."
It's called "open circuit voltage" not open current voltage. Other than that, yes, you have the right idea.
Unfortunately the overzealous CNN "moderators" (i.e. censors) won't let me point out an even more serious error that occurred several years ago (in the 2004).
Fun fact: Plants are purposefully inefficient at collecting sunlight. Our sun peaks in the green part of the spectrum, which is what plants reflect. Keeps photosynthesis under control.
My point is: if you wanted to make a super efficient solar collector, a tree would be a lousy place to start.
Completely untrue statement.
Actually, you are mistaken. Plants have a lot of surface area (leaves) so they can collect a lot of photons. Within the photosynthetic proccess are controls to prevent individual chloroplasts from retaining too much potential energy (becoming to hot). The biochemical pathways limit how much energy a plant can use at any one time.
For example, when someone such as yourself tries to take in too much scientific information at one time, the information isn't absorbed properly. When you post to a site such as this, the errors in your processing become obvious. Therefore, you need to slow down, like those chloroplasts, and become efficient at storing information correctly.
I'm sure there is medication available if self-control and training don't work.
You certainly have a way with words! Touché!
Great one Farmer Chuck. I love your example.
...can't wait to see what he does at 23!
Does it make sense. During the 8 hours time a solar panel on a tree branch collect more energy at a steady state.
Just wait, in a few weeks an Asian will have a better idea.
In other words, Grandpa bought him a science fair award. Most kids don't have the resources to buy solar panels for school projects.
Must suck to be so ignorant.
The panels he used on that tree cost $10 a piece. NOT expensive.
Poor little Bobby, did you come in last place at the science fair when you were a kid? You sound like a jealous brat, grow up!
The jealousy and mean spiritedness here is overwhelmingly indicative of how underwhelming most of the commenters IQ's are. This kid is a lot more imaginative and inquisitive than most of you will ever be. How wonderful to be invited to participate in research at THIRTEEN. Most of you were playing video games at 13. How impressive he is and how unimpressive you all are.
i like video games
@vidguy...me too...
I haven't seen one person yet bashing the kid. We're bashing the media for running with this idea that any engineer can tell you is a dead end. We don't blame the kid, he's 13, even Edison failed thousands of times for every success, but quit treating this as a success, he didn't measure the right thing.
Even a cursory web search would show that this story was debunked way back in August. This is journalism?
I understand the Fibonacci Sequence well enough to use in when I design furniture, etc. I certainly know that it is ubiquitous in nature. "Out of the mouths of babes", we have an example of how a fresh young mind as applied the law of nature to what appears to be a self-evidently more efficient way to array solar panels. Trees and plants have been around for a very long time and have survived tremendous ecological changes. There are times when they must have needed to eke out as much solar power as they could. When you think about it, leaves are another form of solar panels; creating energy from the sun to power their existence. Kudos to Aidan for recognizing this law of nauture!
As a designer you should know that 6 solar panels at best sun exposure produce peak energy.
With a tree approach where panels are facing many different directions you need more than 6 panels to
produce the same amount of energy at the same time.
This simple cost and manufacturing calculation should have already stated that this is non-sense.
cekuhnin: "As a designer you should know that 6 solar panels at best sun exposure produce peak energy."
I design furniture, which is more of an art than a science. I do not purport to be an engineer. I simply have found that beauty and efficiency can often be found in nature. Your response reveals a great flaw in arguments against what this young man is proposing. Are we do accept that the only economically feasible approach to renewable energy sources is to demand that we have "best sun exposure"? Really, what is exciting about this is that it presents an opportunity to extract solar power when conditions are less than optimal. That happens to be the case in many places. If trees were required to thrive or perish based on this condition then we would not have many trees.
I maintain that a child is introducing a radically new way of approaching the issue; and that it has tremendous rational appeal. It is not proven yet, and it will not be until it is put to the test. Edison, also, was criticized for the having audacity to think that he could make the light bulb to work. I don't doubt that science will "prove" this to be inadequate given the presumptions used to that end.
@AmericanSam What do you mean "Whether or not he was right in his research is irrelevant." While I am all in favor of this young man jumping into the scientific fray like this, your comment indicates that you really don't understand science. "Whether or not he is right" is very much relevant. That is at the very heart of science. You can't just throw out some idea related to science and expect there to be no debate on the issue. The scientific principle REQUIRES a tough look at his assertions. An adult, or anyone else for that matter, pointing out flaws in his reasoning or methodology has nothing to do with jealousy. It's exactly how the process of science works. What he says has to stand up to scrutiny. If it doesn't then he most certainly is wrong. It doesn't mean he is a bad person, it just means he came to an incorrect conclusion. Hopefully, it would just redirect him to formulate a better conclusion. Just because he is a child doesn't mean that he is not subject to the same scientific process as everyone else.
I don't mean to crush the kid's spirits. I hope he continues along his path in life, but this is not a new concept. In fact, they have a model of one of these solar trees at Disneyland.
Debunked (along with a flurry of media criticism) over 2 months ago and now CNN front-page "news". .
Ok come on. He's 13 and its quite a good idea. Try not to be total douc he huh?
I know, right? I can't believe the negative responses to such an extraordinary THIRTEEN-year-old. He hasn't had TIME in his life to read all the doctorate theses and whatnot that make his ideas seem less revolutionary. Just admire his thought processes and quit being jealous because he's smarter than your kids (or you), dammit.
sorry but this is just a waste of space. an array of closely spaced panels is more efficient
A few thoughts–
I think it's great that this kid is taking initiative toward fixing our future energy crisis. Most kids his age wouldn't even care.
But–
1. If you're going to present your research, you have to make sure you have the terms correct. There is no such thing as "open current voltage". It is known as "open circuit voltage" and anyone working in the solar field would know that.
2. As other posters commented, there is no difference between the tree idea and a solar panel with solar tracking. If you lay a solar panel flat, it will not always get maximum sunlight because the sun moves and the panel does not. The tree just covers the track of the sun, so different panels see different amounts of sunlight at different times. When these are all added together, of course you see better results than for a fixed flat panel. Maybe he should compare his results to a panel with solar tracking? In any case, I guess solar tracking can be expensive and complicated, so the tree idea might be of some use.
3. I also don't agree with using only open circuit voltage as a measure of how well your solar cell is collecting photons.
Thank you. At least I can sleep now knowing that I'm not the only one comprehending this side show.
This experimenter is thirteen years old. He has developed a theory, implemented it in a model, tested the model and presented his results. That's good technology. I just retired from a career as an engineer and R&D experimenter. Most of the people I worked with over my forty years in industry just cookbooked what someone else had shown them. His work is original. His methodology is first rate (and he's thirteen, do you understand that?). Every comment here should be encouraging. He's getting something done, probably more than any of you critics.
If you are so sure his results are wrong, send him a message telling where you think the methodology could be improved, assuming you could. My guess is that most of you have no idea how to integrate the energy over the solar day. Yes, he did employ incorrect usage on a few units. He has sixty years to straighten that out, thank you. Meanwhile, instead of showing your superiority by showing him how wrong he is, how about showing him where he's right and how he might be able to make it better.
Everyone of you sounds like a six year old, jealous of the attention the smart one is getting. Grow up, all of you. No wonder this benighted country is taking a back seat to china with our cratering technical workforce. What a place! What a bunch of ignorant, selfish dweebs. Get out of technology and go over to the financial sector. You'll make more money, and we'll be spared your company.
I have to say, I read this reply here and rate it as one of the top 5 replies I've seen. Excellent point – How dare anyone here try to sit and judge this very bright 13 year old and smash his work and aspirations to pieces. It's refreshing to see someone his age not glued behind a TV set with a game controller in one hand and wearing a stare that says "I'm a dingbat" all over it.
Enjoy pulling wings off butterflies much? It really makes me wonder how absolutely pathetic some of you are.
they dont sound jealous ever thought about why Obama and More are right about the statement that the USA lost their cutting edge?
Because education and media is not CRITICAL which is important in education.
When I read that red is psychological to hard or see the crappy drawings this kid did for this presentation I find it embarrassing that many still think the USA is the best.
The reason why other countries surpassed the USA is because they kept standards high and not low.
In education only one thing counts critical thinking not wishful thinking and promoting it.
This is not rude or unfair but the only way to promote real growth.
The fact that you rant about commentators clearly shows that you lack the depth to see this in a bigger picture.
Actually, JD, I think this one is:
"Because education and media is not CRITICAL which is important in education."
Remember when you got your SAT scores and saw the percentile, and then wondered if there were actually people who got low scores had "15th percentile" written on their score report or whether they stopped assigning percentiles at a certain point?
These commenters are the 15%. Mystery solved.
Is America's low standard of education the reason why your own response is full of grammatical errors? Criticism discourages children to try. Constructive criticism is good, but these replies are not constructive and do reek of jealousy.
I couldn't have said it better! Maybe that's why America is in the shape it's in...too many critics and not enough people WORKING TOGETHER to make it better! This young man is doing more than most 13 year olds do to actually care about our future...so we even have one! There are many, I'm sure, very smart engineers out there that could actually work with Aiden to help develop his idea to actually MAKE IT WORK!! Now wouldn't that be better than telling him what he can't do or how wrong he is. I would hope. I would hope that if any of you skeptics have any children that you would rather encourage and help them, not criticize and tear them down. How truly sad. Congratulations Aiden! Keep up the good work and maybe the world will be a better place for what you've done! And enjoy your time with your friends and have fun too! You're a blessing and an inspiration. Keep dreaming... we need people like you in the White House right about now!!
I think it's absolutely great that he's DOING something, but that doesn't change the fact that somebody should have taught him to improve his methodology, not putting the results of flawed science up as front page news. I'm not bashing the kid at all, kudos to him, but everyone else involved has dropped the ball.
Another kid telling seasoned adults "how it is".
He can run the wind-down of Solyndra.
Plagiarism
Inspiration for the Electree came first while observing trees. Tree leaves are actually natural solar panels.
Nature has selected over millions of years the most efficient structures to capture solar energy. The trees shape is thus the best mean to take advantage of the solar energy.
While studying fractals, I realized that one could draw a tree by repeating and transforming a basic pattern.
The basic pattern has then become a module and the general shape of the Electree appeared.
But I wanted the Electree to be a product to be placed inside. The idea of a bonsaï to recharge mobile electronic devices thus came up."
http://www.ulule.com/electree/
I think this is a great idea! if yiu can figure out how ot make it affordable we will all buy one.....i could never affford solar panels...but like the concept....well done!!
Doesn't make it more affordable. Just more efficient..
Umm... if it's more efficient then it will save money over time. Employed to service one home, the solar tree would present enough savings in three years to make it worth getting off of the electric grids provided by greedy corporations. Employed on a large enough scale, it's technology like this that could revolutionize the way we – and maybe the world – generates electricity.
So, over time, it's more cost effective. If you look at the future benefits then it's definitely more affordable.
sure beats what girls are doing at this age
and what are girls doing at his age exactly? at his age i – yes a girl was studying and now own my own business, is that beyond your level of understanding or are you age 5 hoping you can be even half as brilliant as this kid at age 12?
No doubt. But let's not forget his exceptional grandfather. No doubt the granfather is a driving force in that young mans life and that has and will make all the difference in that kids future. I'm not a gradfather, but as I get older I see the value they have. Cheers
I was coding HTML at 9 and programming VB at 13 on the college level. It doesn't mean a damn thing. Unless you have the skills of an entrepreneur, no matter how innovative your ideas are, expect to be working underneath someone just like the rest of us peons. It's called the real world and man is it going to be a rude awakening for this kid.
little girls can program HTML and VB at age 5...
This was in the mid 90's before HTML's language was revised and dumbed down for the average user. Hell, you can ask anybody now days what HTML is and they can tell you, back then it was rare for anyone to have a clue.
And I guarantee you that you don't even know what VB is. Now it's become VB.NET which anybody can learn.
Sounds like someone's arrogance caused some expectations that met their own rude awakening.
Actually, I went straight into the trades, without using a lick of skill from freelance programing. Which, yea, is disappointing because I enjoyed coding. But while I'm working full time as an electrician, people my age are still working coffee shops with their college degrees. No regrets here.
Kyle, would you like a cookie? Not impressed at all by your boasting.
Actually some leaves turn like the sunflower, following the sun. Those are even more efficient. Unfortunately, moving parts tend to break down sooner than non-moving parts, so it may not be cost efficient. The tree leaves idea isn't new. The only reason they do it flat is for cost reason. Installation is an expensive part of the project.
My parents decided to let me have a life instead of pushing me toward this kind of late-to-the-party "prodigy" experience.
wow, somebody's skin is crawling with envy.
Relax, you can invent something else buddy.
Is "envy" the word you use when someone has a point? Because it's the wrong word to use.
Sorry pal, by Tyler doesn't have a point. What Tyler meant to say was "I wish my parents encouraged me and stressed the importance of learning when I was that age." When Tyler speaks of his parents letting him have a life, he speaks directly to the lack of emphasis on science and learning that is pervasive in our society like a plague. Kids are more interested in playing Xbox, Hip Hop and partying with their friends than they are on learning to better their lives and build a solid future for themselves. Thats why this nation is so screwed up, parents let their kids "have a life" instead of helping them prepare for their future.
...and the young man IS AN AMERICAN !
..With the total dumbing down of America (we are 51st in Math and Science......IN THE WORLD!), let us salute Aiden Dwyer for his 'out of the box' configuration for maximizing collection of photons.
Fun to dream. The bottom line here is that kids have too much free time.
You are definitely wrong about that. Saying a 13- year old has too much time?! Most kids here in Silicon valley have to practice 2 instruments a day, for 2 hours. Almost all kids have to play a sport, and do homework for whatever language school they go to. People do SAT prep too and a whole load of time. Most people sleep at 1pm and get up at 6am. Thats not much sleep. and a hell of a day. On top of that schools give so much homework. There is about three tests a week. Don't think that kids have a lot of time.
Just putting that out there.
*1am
Fractal trees > Fibonacci trees
Now adults. This is a child. It's ok to say you don't believe it, but just don't be mean.
LOL, yes exactly!
This kid's haircut speaks volumes of forming an original thought. I wonder which parent really pushed him in the "right direction" so he can make these "discoveries".
@ds, he also wears a shirt, like everyone else. Guess that shows how unoriginal he is, right?
The kid did great, he worked on and developed a whole idea that does something better. Good job and keep at it.
Right, just downplay the haircut and the makeup. No megalomaniac here, move along.
I find the comments bu the "haters" nothing more than jealosy of the fact they did not come up with the idea first. For Aidan: Hey kiddo, don't listen to these other yo-yo's. You make your millions with your idea, and Get'er Done! Just one tip though, get your patents in place early. You just never know.
As for you folks who commented in the negative, this just shows the rest of the world how shallow and closed minded you really are. Bottom line: If you don't have something nice to say, then do everyone else a favor and keep your negative comments to yourself!
I agree. Whether or not he was right in his research is irrelevant. He tried to do something really good for the world regardless. Don't insult a 13 year old kid for trying.
It is called being realistic. And this child discovered NOTHING "first."
Regardless, he is learning and experimenting NOW! He will do more in the course of his life than 99.9% of his peers. And to respond to these posters who are slamming this kid saying he discovered nothing first and his ideas are not original...are you REALLY that immature? Thats how kids in middle school act, when they aren't the center of attention they do everything they can to make sure no-one else is either. Grow up people, act like adults!
I'm not blaming the kid at all, good for him, but I think it's kind of cruel to let him go on thinking he's struck gold when this could be a teachable moment of improving his methodology. His results were debunked months ago, that's ok, he's just a kid. The greatest inventors in history failed more often than they succeeded, it's part of the process, but that doesn't make this project a success.
Based on the "evidence" we have seen presented here, I believe that everyone challenging this proposal is out of line on two counts:
1) In order to "debunk" a scientific proposal it must first be put to the test. The "evidence" is largely based on assumptions that may, or may not, prove to be valid over time. This proposal is in its infancy and has not been rigorously tested. Therefore, it has not been debunked.
2) The notion that solar panels must be arrayed so as to benefit from maximum sun exposure appears logical, but it may not be the most economical long-term solution to producing renewable energy at a low cost. Rather than having the panels shift to align better with the sun, why not have the sun align itself with a number of smaller panels as it transverses the sky? This, IMHO, is the gist of what Aidan's proposal is all about, and that is what ought to be given attention.